Since its inception, Sesame Street has had one central icon—the biggest, baddest bird on the block. Caroll Spinney has played Big Bird (and his spiritual foil, Oscar the Grouch) for the show's entire 45-year run. Dave LaMattina and Chad N. Walker's documentary, I Am Big Bird: The Caroll Spinney Story, delves into the history of this iconic character and the man who plays him. From his humble beginnings working with Captain Kangaroo and Bozo the Clown to his deep friendship with Jim Henson, I Am Big Bird is a comprehensive and moving look at this figure that is quintessential in so many childhoods. It is also a love story, pulling from home movies and Sesame Street footage to depict the lifelong love affair Caroll has shared with his wife Debra, a crew member he met on the Sesame Street set. The film played at the Minneapolis Saint Paul International Film Festival and opens for a limited run at the Film Society of Minneapolis Saint Paul from May 15-23.
In advance of this documentary, Caroll agreed to a short phone interview. Little did I know that I wouldn't just be interviewing him, but also Big Bird and Oscar, who made appearances throughout our conversation.
In advance of this documentary, Caroll agreed to a short phone interview. Little did I know that I wouldn't just be interviewing him, but also Big Bird and Oscar, who made appearances throughout our conversation.
Thank you for agreeing to speak with me today. First of all, how do you feel about this documentary?
Deb and I were amazed how good it is. It’s delightful. We hadn’t seen it until it was just about done. We’d seen some little cuts, which you could see on YouTube—trailers and stuff. The movie was just so beautifully finished off, with wonderful music and a beautiful story that they put together with the stuff we handed them, because we had years and years of archives. I said, “Are we ever going to look at this stuff?” We just had boxes of it. We gave them all these boxes and they went through years of looking at the stuff and then putting together a story, which amazed us. It is our story, but to see it so beautifully done—it’s not often you see your life done like that.
That must be a side effect of having so much of your life be on television too. There’s just so much content to work with.
Yeah, and Deb and I have always taken videos of our lives. We’ve been together for 42 years and are madly in love, and I think that showed in the movie too. It’s just been really flabbergasting for us but we are amazed at how people like the movie.
As a Muppeteer, it seems like you’re doing these two very disparate characters, Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch. Do you feel like they represent two parts of your personality?
Not necessarily. I kind of know what [Oscar] thinks because it’s pretty much the opposite of the way I think. I just seek out in my mind what he likes, which is to be very grumpy. Things that people think is so much fun, he thinks are a bore.
Deb and I were amazed how good it is. It’s delightful. We hadn’t seen it until it was just about done. We’d seen some little cuts, which you could see on YouTube—trailers and stuff. The movie was just so beautifully finished off, with wonderful music and a beautiful story that they put together with the stuff we handed them, because we had years and years of archives. I said, “Are we ever going to look at this stuff?” We just had boxes of it. We gave them all these boxes and they went through years of looking at the stuff and then putting together a story, which amazed us. It is our story, but to see it so beautifully done—it’s not often you see your life done like that.
That must be a side effect of having so much of your life be on television too. There’s just so much content to work with.
Yeah, and Deb and I have always taken videos of our lives. We’ve been together for 42 years and are madly in love, and I think that showed in the movie too. It’s just been really flabbergasting for us but we are amazed at how people like the movie.
As a Muppeteer, it seems like you’re doing these two very disparate characters, Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch. Do you feel like they represent two parts of your personality?
Not necessarily. I kind of know what [Oscar] thinks because it’s pretty much the opposite of the way I think. I just seek out in my mind what he likes, which is to be very grumpy. Things that people think is so much fun, he thinks are a bore.
So you identify most closely with Big Bird. Do you think Big Bird would also have fun playing Oscar?
No, I think Big Bird wouldn’t know how to be Oscar. Big Bird is such an optimist and he is vulnerable but he is always looking forward while Oscar likes things to stay the way they are, particularly if they are grouchy.
I was wondering about Oscar’s political leanings because of his introduction in Follow that Bird where he sings a song called Grouches of the World Unite.
That was quite a dissertation he made, just the point of it being to put the rest of the film down. He said, “Well you’ve already seen the best part of this film,” putting it on himself. Big Bird would never do that. To Oscar the best part of the film was himself ranting and raving but that’s his grouchy side which works fine for him. People still seem to get a kick out of him, although that was a particularly raging moment for him.
Do you feel like these characters have changed at all for you over the last 42 years?
Actually it’s been 45 years and we’re working on the 46th year of the show now. I would say that they’ve stayed pretty consistent. From the beginning Oscar hasn’t changed much other than the fact that he was orange the first year, but he’s admitted that if he actually took a bath he’d still be orange. The green comes from the mold and maybe a little moss growing here and there.
Oscar: I’m very ecological. I grow mold and moss.
You’re very green.
Oscar: Yes, very green. That’s a good way to put it. Heh heh heh. But it’s not easy being green.
Big Bird: Hey you stole that from Kermit the Frog!
No, I think Big Bird wouldn’t know how to be Oscar. Big Bird is such an optimist and he is vulnerable but he is always looking forward while Oscar likes things to stay the way they are, particularly if they are grouchy.
I was wondering about Oscar’s political leanings because of his introduction in Follow that Bird where he sings a song called Grouches of the World Unite.
That was quite a dissertation he made, just the point of it being to put the rest of the film down. He said, “Well you’ve already seen the best part of this film,” putting it on himself. Big Bird would never do that. To Oscar the best part of the film was himself ranting and raving but that’s his grouchy side which works fine for him. People still seem to get a kick out of him, although that was a particularly raging moment for him.
Do you feel like these characters have changed at all for you over the last 42 years?
Actually it’s been 45 years and we’re working on the 46th year of the show now. I would say that they’ve stayed pretty consistent. From the beginning Oscar hasn’t changed much other than the fact that he was orange the first year, but he’s admitted that if he actually took a bath he’d still be orange. The green comes from the mold and maybe a little moss growing here and there.
Oscar: I’m very ecological. I grow mold and moss.
You’re very green.
Oscar: Yes, very green. That’s a good way to put it. Heh heh heh. But it’s not easy being green.
Big Bird: Hey you stole that from Kermit the Frog!
So, speaking of Kermit, can you talk a little bit about how Jim Henson shaped these characters or shaped your portrayal?
Yeah. When Sesame Street was not fully on the air but they had done a couple of pilots to see how the public would like the show and if it was complete, it was felt it should have something more besides just Ernie and Bert. So they said we’d like to have you create a couple of new characters who might be regulars on the show specifically made for these times and so [Jim] came up with Big Bird. He’d always wanted to make a silly goofy bird character out of the same idea he used for the dragon.
Is that the La Choy Dragon?
The La Choy Dragon, yeah. So he came up with those characters, and he got the name for Oscar from a grouchy waiter at a seafood restaurant called Oscar’s. And Big Bird, he just named him Big Bird because he was big. If a man is standing in a suit which is very similar to the La Choy Dragon with his hand up over his head—holding up the head—then you can make the character much bigger than the average person.
For me, I was the smallest boy in my class and to have me play the tallest character TV has ever seen, 8’2”, and yet he’s only six years old makes it kind of a unique character. Jim handed that to me to do. Oscar is a stunning character of exact opposite spirit and soul, and yet they’re both solo characters. Big Bird lives by himself and he is a little kid who just likes to have people like him. He likes to tell people basic things—he does all kinds of things. Oscar is this curmudgeon who lives by himself in his trashcan.
Oscar seems like he’s more solo by choice than Big Bird.
Yeah, we’ve never figured out what happened to Big Bird’s parents, because he’s a kid who lives by himself. Once about every ten years or so in the show, Granny Bird shows up and gives him advice. Like when his nest was destroyed by a hurricane, he didn’t know what to do, so she said, “Just build a new nest. You have instincts. You know how to build a nest.” The only thing that we ignore is that birds don’t really live in nests. For real birds the nest is basically to have eggs laid safely.
Oh, so they don’t live there year round.
No, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. Even though we try to teach reality in the show, we have an awful lot of fantasy as well.
Yeah. When Sesame Street was not fully on the air but they had done a couple of pilots to see how the public would like the show and if it was complete, it was felt it should have something more besides just Ernie and Bert. So they said we’d like to have you create a couple of new characters who might be regulars on the show specifically made for these times and so [Jim] came up with Big Bird. He’d always wanted to make a silly goofy bird character out of the same idea he used for the dragon.
Is that the La Choy Dragon?
The La Choy Dragon, yeah. So he came up with those characters, and he got the name for Oscar from a grouchy waiter at a seafood restaurant called Oscar’s. And Big Bird, he just named him Big Bird because he was big. If a man is standing in a suit which is very similar to the La Choy Dragon with his hand up over his head—holding up the head—then you can make the character much bigger than the average person.
For me, I was the smallest boy in my class and to have me play the tallest character TV has ever seen, 8’2”, and yet he’s only six years old makes it kind of a unique character. Jim handed that to me to do. Oscar is a stunning character of exact opposite spirit and soul, and yet they’re both solo characters. Big Bird lives by himself and he is a little kid who just likes to have people like him. He likes to tell people basic things—he does all kinds of things. Oscar is this curmudgeon who lives by himself in his trashcan.
Oscar seems like he’s more solo by choice than Big Bird.
Yeah, we’ve never figured out what happened to Big Bird’s parents, because he’s a kid who lives by himself. Once about every ten years or so in the show, Granny Bird shows up and gives him advice. Like when his nest was destroyed by a hurricane, he didn’t know what to do, so she said, “Just build a new nest. You have instincts. You know how to build a nest.” The only thing that we ignore is that birds don’t really live in nests. For real birds the nest is basically to have eggs laid safely.
Oh, so they don’t live there year round.
No, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. Even though we try to teach reality in the show, we have an awful lot of fantasy as well.
So when you’re switching between being Big Bird and Oscar, do you have a routine? Is it challenging to get out of one mindset and into the other?
No, it’s such a different experience. The puppets are so different to operate. Only once did I get mixed up. Big Bird was standing there, going to open a scene and the first thing I said was “Well” in that husky Oscar voice. Uh oh, wrong voice. In all the years I’ve been doing it—45 years—that’s the only time I made that mistake and didn’t do it deliberately just to be funny. I’ve done that just to be funny, but only once has it been a total mistake. But everybody laughed and then I went on and did the right voice. If we make a mistake on tape, we don’t show the stuff. We just start again and do it right because it isn’t live.
I’m impressed by the scale of the Big Bird rig. Is it the most complicated Muppet on the set?
I suppose in a way, but the Snuffleupagus has two men in it. The rear end is a professional dancer so he often instructs the front how to do great moves, and Marty Robinson who plays the Snuffleupagus, he’s just a fabulous artist and a funny guy too. He does the front which is more complex to do because he has to operate his huge mouth and his eyes. He’s hilarious. When he’s not doing the camera stuff and is fooling around, sometimes he suddenly grows tusks made of styrofoam. It’s very funny, but you’ll never see them on TV.
Another time there was a little boy on the set about four years old and he reaches over and opens his great maw of a mouth and just envelops the kid and he picks him up and you see his little legs kicking as the Snuffleupagus swallows him whole. He is generally sort of a vegetarian, since his favorite foods are cabbages and spaghetti. I don’t see much meat in there, but he does go for a meatball once in a while.
No, it’s such a different experience. The puppets are so different to operate. Only once did I get mixed up. Big Bird was standing there, going to open a scene and the first thing I said was “Well” in that husky Oscar voice. Uh oh, wrong voice. In all the years I’ve been doing it—45 years—that’s the only time I made that mistake and didn’t do it deliberately just to be funny. I’ve done that just to be funny, but only once has it been a total mistake. But everybody laughed and then I went on and did the right voice. If we make a mistake on tape, we don’t show the stuff. We just start again and do it right because it isn’t live.
I’m impressed by the scale of the Big Bird rig. Is it the most complicated Muppet on the set?
I suppose in a way, but the Snuffleupagus has two men in it. The rear end is a professional dancer so he often instructs the front how to do great moves, and Marty Robinson who plays the Snuffleupagus, he’s just a fabulous artist and a funny guy too. He does the front which is more complex to do because he has to operate his huge mouth and his eyes. He’s hilarious. When he’s not doing the camera stuff and is fooling around, sometimes he suddenly grows tusks made of styrofoam. It’s very funny, but you’ll never see them on TV.
Another time there was a little boy on the set about four years old and he reaches over and opens his great maw of a mouth and just envelops the kid and he picks him up and you see his little legs kicking as the Snuffleupagus swallows him whole. He is generally sort of a vegetarian, since his favorite foods are cabbages and spaghetti. I don’t see much meat in there, but he does go for a meatball once in a while.
So in the early years Snuffleupagus was an imaginary character. Was that a tough transition?
He was accused of being imaginary, however he was actually real but we kept it funny. He was always leaving just before anyone else arrived. Big bird would say, “Please don’t leave, Snuffy. Because people are going to come over here and then they’ll see you’re real.” And then he’d leave the scene to go get them, but Snuffy would say, “Oh boy I am finally going to meet Big Bird’s friends. I’ve always thought they were imaginary. I’ll finally get to see them.” And then he says, “I hope I look good enough. Maybe I should go home and get a tie. I’ll just run and get a tie.” But of course he doesn’t make it back in time and they come back and there’s no Snuffleupagus.
But we did that for years until finally we had actual complaints that we were showing that we didn’t believe what a child was saying. Big Bird is perennially six years old. I thought it was more fun when people didn’t see him, but then, if you weren’t watching on the one Thursday when everyone comes in and discovers that Snuffy is real, then you’d miss the switch. On the very next day he’s standing around in front of Hooper’s Store and everybody is friendly and talking with him. Of course the only dichotomy with that is the fact that he was never trying to hide, he just had the habit of disappearing just before anybody showed up.
Now that you’re transitioning into retiring from Big Bird--
I’m not retiring. There’s a story around that this was all a buildup for my retirement. It has nothing to do with that. My goal has always been 50 years. I want to do it at least 50 years and it would be nice after 50 years to continue to do it. So we’ll see how it feels and if it’s still fun and I can do it properly, I will still be…
Big Bird: Big Bird. Hello!
Do you feel like Matt Vogel’s Big Bird is very different from yours or in what ways do you portray him differently?
Well, right now he’s actually just a stand-in for me physically. I do the voice and he’s doing the body movements. Eventually, when I’m fully gone, he does a voice very close to mine and he will then play it, but it will probably have a little bit of a shade towards him because that’s how it works. You know, when you’re creating a life and a story, you have your own influence.
He was accused of being imaginary, however he was actually real but we kept it funny. He was always leaving just before anyone else arrived. Big bird would say, “Please don’t leave, Snuffy. Because people are going to come over here and then they’ll see you’re real.” And then he’d leave the scene to go get them, but Snuffy would say, “Oh boy I am finally going to meet Big Bird’s friends. I’ve always thought they were imaginary. I’ll finally get to see them.” And then he says, “I hope I look good enough. Maybe I should go home and get a tie. I’ll just run and get a tie.” But of course he doesn’t make it back in time and they come back and there’s no Snuffleupagus.
But we did that for years until finally we had actual complaints that we were showing that we didn’t believe what a child was saying. Big Bird is perennially six years old. I thought it was more fun when people didn’t see him, but then, if you weren’t watching on the one Thursday when everyone comes in and discovers that Snuffy is real, then you’d miss the switch. On the very next day he’s standing around in front of Hooper’s Store and everybody is friendly and talking with him. Of course the only dichotomy with that is the fact that he was never trying to hide, he just had the habit of disappearing just before anybody showed up.
Now that you’re transitioning into retiring from Big Bird--
I’m not retiring. There’s a story around that this was all a buildup for my retirement. It has nothing to do with that. My goal has always been 50 years. I want to do it at least 50 years and it would be nice after 50 years to continue to do it. So we’ll see how it feels and if it’s still fun and I can do it properly, I will still be…
Big Bird: Big Bird. Hello!
Do you feel like Matt Vogel’s Big Bird is very different from yours or in what ways do you portray him differently?
Well, right now he’s actually just a stand-in for me physically. I do the voice and he’s doing the body movements. Eventually, when I’m fully gone, he does a voice very close to mine and he will then play it, but it will probably have a little bit of a shade towards him because that’s how it works. You know, when you’re creating a life and a story, you have your own influence.
That must be particularly true in these public events you have where you have to interact with kids too. You really must be able to inhabit these characters.
Yeah, but Big Bird doesn’t have as many public events as he used to. You still have the show that goes around called Sesame Street Live, however the small disagreement with that is that it’s not live, it’s recorded, and it’s all scripted and replayed for two years. The kids feel it’s live, and it’s a good show. I know so many children have seen the show, and of course, we the characters are paid to do that, but no royalties or anything. Every so often we do another show so they can get a good year or two out of it and then they go around to different places in the country. We also have another troupe that goes around through Asian countries because we’re popular in many, many countries.
That must have been strange for you going from being a young artist to being an international icon.
Well yeah, it was kind of satisfying. You know some of those things are just reports you hear because you don’t see them watching in other countries. And they alter the show to send it to other countries. There are 37 countries in the world that speak English so we can just show the show there, although we will change things. For instance, one of the things we show a lot on Sesame Street in the States is that there will be some words in Spanish and so kids learn some Spanish—how to count in Spanish for instance, stuff like that. But in Canada that’s not seen. They replace that with special French Canadian stuff that we make for them. When it’s shown in Australia they show it with the Aborigines’ lives so that kids who see it will understand Aborigines better.
So do you shoot that all in New York?
Well no, in Australia and Canada they film their own stuff and add it. We give them whatever help they need to make good stuff for the Canadian kids or the Australian kids. We used to be on in New Zealand and Ireland—those are two countries that don’t show it anymore—but we had stuff about the Irish culture and the Maori culture of New Zealand. We’re still seen in over 180 countries, and there are only 203 countries in the world.
So you’re almost there.
As I understand it at one point we reached 200 countries. I’ve always questioned that, since that is so many, but still we’re seen in at least 180. It’s so big—we never expected the show to expand that far.
Yeah, but Big Bird doesn’t have as many public events as he used to. You still have the show that goes around called Sesame Street Live, however the small disagreement with that is that it’s not live, it’s recorded, and it’s all scripted and replayed for two years. The kids feel it’s live, and it’s a good show. I know so many children have seen the show, and of course, we the characters are paid to do that, but no royalties or anything. Every so often we do another show so they can get a good year or two out of it and then they go around to different places in the country. We also have another troupe that goes around through Asian countries because we’re popular in many, many countries.
That must have been strange for you going from being a young artist to being an international icon.
Well yeah, it was kind of satisfying. You know some of those things are just reports you hear because you don’t see them watching in other countries. And they alter the show to send it to other countries. There are 37 countries in the world that speak English so we can just show the show there, although we will change things. For instance, one of the things we show a lot on Sesame Street in the States is that there will be some words in Spanish and so kids learn some Spanish—how to count in Spanish for instance, stuff like that. But in Canada that’s not seen. They replace that with special French Canadian stuff that we make for them. When it’s shown in Australia they show it with the Aborigines’ lives so that kids who see it will understand Aborigines better.
So do you shoot that all in New York?
Well no, in Australia and Canada they film their own stuff and add it. We give them whatever help they need to make good stuff for the Canadian kids or the Australian kids. We used to be on in New Zealand and Ireland—those are two countries that don’t show it anymore—but we had stuff about the Irish culture and the Maori culture of New Zealand. We’re still seen in over 180 countries, and there are only 203 countries in the world.
So you’re almost there.
As I understand it at one point we reached 200 countries. I’ve always questioned that, since that is so many, but still we’re seen in at least 180. It’s so big—we never expected the show to expand that far.
It seemed like it was more of an experimental artwork in the early days.
Yeah it was, but it has worked so well that it has actually changed the educational world. When we started back in 1969, if you can imagine that long ago, it was criticized by some educators because they said it wasn’t fair to education because educators don’t have puppets to do funny stuff. Well, they were wrong—school’s actual teaching methods have worked very, very well.
When we started during the 60s, there used to be strange ideas about how to teach that they don’t use anymore because of our show. For instance, sight vision. They didn’t believe in rote—learning the alphabet or singing about it. I remember one person who was a good friend and she said, “At our special school, we don’t allow children to watch Sesame Street.” I said, “Why ever not?” and she said, “Well your song says you have to learn the alphabet if you want to learn to read.” She disagreed with that. I mean you have to know the alphabet and learn that a g is different from a k.
Yeah, it’s hard for me to imagine the alternative, but I grew up in a post-Sesame Street world.
Yes, but they actually believed that. For instance they would teach the word “monkey” because it had that funny round thing at the beginning that could look like a monkey’s eyes—I actually don’t think it looks like eyes, it’s an m. And the y is like a monkey’s curly tail. So she said that’s how you know it’s monkey, because of the curly tail. But I didn’t understand that. I don’t know how you’d tell monkey apart from money that way, unless you know what a k is.
I said that it flies in the face of reason and logic, but I didn’t argue too much because I was living in her house at the time. It was $15 a week to live on her couch. The show is on educational television, so they don’t try to make you rich. But I wouldn’t leave that show for anything, I think they’re wonderful and have done great things for education. I think she’s passed by now because she was a lot older than me, and I’ve already reached my octogenarian years so I really think that we won, not that there was really a battle or anything.
It seems like that mentality is really incomprehensible these days.
I know. Now it sounds silly as I tell it. They actually did think that way. There were also articles in the 60s that criticized that idea titled Why Johnny Can’t Read—well maybe it’s because he didn’t even understand the alphabet. We have pushed the alphabet constantly because it’s the basic form of our reading. You have to know the difference between an O and a Q—the Q has that little curly thing. It’s so ridiculous to think that you shouldn’t teach the alphabet for some reason. We just teach it.
Yeah it was, but it has worked so well that it has actually changed the educational world. When we started back in 1969, if you can imagine that long ago, it was criticized by some educators because they said it wasn’t fair to education because educators don’t have puppets to do funny stuff. Well, they were wrong—school’s actual teaching methods have worked very, very well.
When we started during the 60s, there used to be strange ideas about how to teach that they don’t use anymore because of our show. For instance, sight vision. They didn’t believe in rote—learning the alphabet or singing about it. I remember one person who was a good friend and she said, “At our special school, we don’t allow children to watch Sesame Street.” I said, “Why ever not?” and she said, “Well your song says you have to learn the alphabet if you want to learn to read.” She disagreed with that. I mean you have to know the alphabet and learn that a g is different from a k.
Yeah, it’s hard for me to imagine the alternative, but I grew up in a post-Sesame Street world.
Yes, but they actually believed that. For instance they would teach the word “monkey” because it had that funny round thing at the beginning that could look like a monkey’s eyes—I actually don’t think it looks like eyes, it’s an m. And the y is like a monkey’s curly tail. So she said that’s how you know it’s monkey, because of the curly tail. But I didn’t understand that. I don’t know how you’d tell monkey apart from money that way, unless you know what a k is.
I said that it flies in the face of reason and logic, but I didn’t argue too much because I was living in her house at the time. It was $15 a week to live on her couch. The show is on educational television, so they don’t try to make you rich. But I wouldn’t leave that show for anything, I think they’re wonderful and have done great things for education. I think she’s passed by now because she was a lot older than me, and I’ve already reached my octogenarian years so I really think that we won, not that there was really a battle or anything.
It seems like that mentality is really incomprehensible these days.
I know. Now it sounds silly as I tell it. They actually did think that way. There were also articles in the 60s that criticized that idea titled Why Johnny Can’t Read—well maybe it’s because he didn’t even understand the alphabet. We have pushed the alphabet constantly because it’s the basic form of our reading. You have to know the difference between an O and a Q—the Q has that little curly thing. It’s so ridiculous to think that you shouldn’t teach the alphabet for some reason. We just teach it.
So, over the years, have you had any particular kids who have really touched you, who you’ve really loved working with?
Yeah. I’ve certainly gotten some really charming letters, which I’ve quoted for years. Lovely things like a little boy from Saskatchewan. His mother wrote a letter to me when I was 43, as I recall. Now it’s almost 40 years later. She was from Saskatchewan and she heard her little boy crying, whimpering a little in the living room, and she went in and asked Chris why he was crying. He was watching Sesame Street and he said, “Because Big Bird is just like me.”
We had just done a story of Big Bird feeling sad for himself because he had no one to play with because the older kids were all going to school and he didn’t go to school yet. They were all gone and he was feeling sorry for himself. Chris had the same situation. It was a farm family with a lot of kids, but all the older ones were away, and Chris was four and a half so he was home. Some places don’t have kindergarten, so they’re home until they’re a good six years old.
I was so touched that here, a child here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, was so impressed by something I was doing in our program in New York City that he cried. I thought we were doing the right thing and the boy realized, when he watched the whole episode, that some of the children found that Big Bird was feeling pretty bad, so when they got home they played with him and he had a perfect day. We’ve reached the children through their hearts.
This is a story that will maybe make you feel good: When my girlfriend was maybe 2 or 3 years old, her family went to a cabin. When they got there and were unpacking, they plopped her down in front of a TV and put on Sesame Street. Then a few minutes later she came running into the other room crying because it was the first time she’d ever seen it on a black and white TV and she was so upset because Big Bird was gray.
Ha, yes. And as a child you don’t understand black and white as opposed to color. When I was a boy I was 14 before television came around and everything was black and white then. I remember dreaming of how wonderful it would be when television is going to be in color. I love color. When I went to the movies as a little boy some of the films would show 5 or 7 short subjects before the film. I loved them—unless they were a big band short subject about a jazz band. As a child I didn’t like that stuff. Instead we wanted to see Woody Woodpecker or Bugs Bunny or Porky Pig or Disney things. When a color short came up the whole audience would cheer, because it was so exciting. For that little girl to see there was no color, it must be like, what happened?
I have a friend whose little three-year-old visited our house—now she’s 22 or something in college—but when she was three her grandmother showed her a photo album of family pictures. They were all in black and white until some time in the 70s they got a hold of a color camera. And she said, grandma, “What was it like the day that color began?” Her grandmother said, “What do you mean?” She said, “All these pictures show the world was black and white then, but now it’s all in color. It must have been wonderful. Did you wake up one day and look out and there was green grass and red flowers in the garden?” She had thought that because of the way the photos were, that color began miraculously. It’s just a sweet thought from a three-year-old.
It sounds like Big Bird could have that thought too.
Yeah, although with our show, we started in 1969, and by then all TV was pretty much color. I was surprised in the 80s, when people could buy camcorders for their homes, there was no black and white. Everything was in color right from the start. There was only one picture of me taken as a child that had color, and I have that framed because everything else was black and white.
Yeah. I’ve certainly gotten some really charming letters, which I’ve quoted for years. Lovely things like a little boy from Saskatchewan. His mother wrote a letter to me when I was 43, as I recall. Now it’s almost 40 years later. She was from Saskatchewan and she heard her little boy crying, whimpering a little in the living room, and she went in and asked Chris why he was crying. He was watching Sesame Street and he said, “Because Big Bird is just like me.”
We had just done a story of Big Bird feeling sad for himself because he had no one to play with because the older kids were all going to school and he didn’t go to school yet. They were all gone and he was feeling sorry for himself. Chris had the same situation. It was a farm family with a lot of kids, but all the older ones were away, and Chris was four and a half so he was home. Some places don’t have kindergarten, so they’re home until they’re a good six years old.
I was so touched that here, a child here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, was so impressed by something I was doing in our program in New York City that he cried. I thought we were doing the right thing and the boy realized, when he watched the whole episode, that some of the children found that Big Bird was feeling pretty bad, so when they got home they played with him and he had a perfect day. We’ve reached the children through their hearts.
This is a story that will maybe make you feel good: When my girlfriend was maybe 2 or 3 years old, her family went to a cabin. When they got there and were unpacking, they plopped her down in front of a TV and put on Sesame Street. Then a few minutes later she came running into the other room crying because it was the first time she’d ever seen it on a black and white TV and she was so upset because Big Bird was gray.
Ha, yes. And as a child you don’t understand black and white as opposed to color. When I was a boy I was 14 before television came around and everything was black and white then. I remember dreaming of how wonderful it would be when television is going to be in color. I love color. When I went to the movies as a little boy some of the films would show 5 or 7 short subjects before the film. I loved them—unless they were a big band short subject about a jazz band. As a child I didn’t like that stuff. Instead we wanted to see Woody Woodpecker or Bugs Bunny or Porky Pig or Disney things. When a color short came up the whole audience would cheer, because it was so exciting. For that little girl to see there was no color, it must be like, what happened?
I have a friend whose little three-year-old visited our house—now she’s 22 or something in college—but when she was three her grandmother showed her a photo album of family pictures. They were all in black and white until some time in the 70s they got a hold of a color camera. And she said, grandma, “What was it like the day that color began?” Her grandmother said, “What do you mean?” She said, “All these pictures show the world was black and white then, but now it’s all in color. It must have been wonderful. Did you wake up one day and look out and there was green grass and red flowers in the garden?” She had thought that because of the way the photos were, that color began miraculously. It’s just a sweet thought from a three-year-old.
It sounds like Big Bird could have that thought too.
Yeah, although with our show, we started in 1969, and by then all TV was pretty much color. I was surprised in the 80s, when people could buy camcorders for their homes, there was no black and white. Everything was in color right from the start. There was only one picture of me taken as a child that had color, and I have that framed because everything else was black and white.
So I guess the other thing with working on Sesame Street for so many years is you must have met a lot of great people—great artists and notable people.
Yeah, it’s very exciting that way, when you meet someone who is famous and who you’ve admired all of your life. An awful lot of movie people have asked to be on our show. They would ask Sesame Street and they wouldn’t get paid anything special because Sesame Street is a nonprofit organization and there wasn’t the money to pay them $10,000 for their appearance. They would call to see if they could be on the show and they might get $300 or $400 for spending a whole day on set. But there were some very famous names.
Was there anyone who really struck you? Who you really were star struck by?
Of all the people we’ve met there was only one person who we actually became close friends with. It was not a guy who we had been following in his career before that. He was a country singer and I’m not particularly into country, although I did win an award for a country song I sang with Crystal Gayle called Songs. It made the Golden Country Western’s hit parade. But back to Waylon Jennings, did you ever see Follow That Bird with Big Bird in it?
Yeah.
Well remember when he’s hitchhiking to get back to Sesame Street and a truck full of turkeys stops with Waylon Jennings as the driver? So, I spent two days with him in the truck filming shots for the film and we discovered we had so much in common with stories of the heart. Even though he’s a country guy and I’m not, we sparked up a wonderful friendship. We’ve spent Christmas with him in Nashville, we became such close friends and one day he said his best friends were Johnny and June Cash and also Caroll and Debbie. I was so flattered that he put me in the same category as Johnny and June because those are two of the greatest people in country music. He and his lovely wife Jessi Colter were just such great friends. That’s one of the greatest warm feelings about all of the years we’ve done the show. Unfortunately he died probably 12 years ago in 2003 at 63 years old and I feel so bad to have lost this great friend.
But I met so many great people—Danny DeVito, Billy Crystal, Martin Short, Candice Bergen who was Edgar Bergen’s daughter, Margaret Hamilton who was the Wicked Witch of the West—she recreated her character from The Wizard of Oz for the first time, and I got to be great friends with her, Deb and I. So we just met so many people—I sang with Johnny Cash, Ray Charles, Ziggy Marley. Pete Seeger was probably the first celebrity we ever worked with. Judy Collins, the singer, James Taylor—he rewrote his song Your Smiling Face so it was “Oscar, whenever I see your frowning face.” It was very funny. He was a very nice guy.
Yeah, it’s very exciting that way, when you meet someone who is famous and who you’ve admired all of your life. An awful lot of movie people have asked to be on our show. They would ask Sesame Street and they wouldn’t get paid anything special because Sesame Street is a nonprofit organization and there wasn’t the money to pay them $10,000 for their appearance. They would call to see if they could be on the show and they might get $300 or $400 for spending a whole day on set. But there were some very famous names.
Was there anyone who really struck you? Who you really were star struck by?
Of all the people we’ve met there was only one person who we actually became close friends with. It was not a guy who we had been following in his career before that. He was a country singer and I’m not particularly into country, although I did win an award for a country song I sang with Crystal Gayle called Songs. It made the Golden Country Western’s hit parade. But back to Waylon Jennings, did you ever see Follow That Bird with Big Bird in it?
Yeah.
Well remember when he’s hitchhiking to get back to Sesame Street and a truck full of turkeys stops with Waylon Jennings as the driver? So, I spent two days with him in the truck filming shots for the film and we discovered we had so much in common with stories of the heart. Even though he’s a country guy and I’m not, we sparked up a wonderful friendship. We’ve spent Christmas with him in Nashville, we became such close friends and one day he said his best friends were Johnny and June Cash and also Caroll and Debbie. I was so flattered that he put me in the same category as Johnny and June because those are two of the greatest people in country music. He and his lovely wife Jessi Colter were just such great friends. That’s one of the greatest warm feelings about all of the years we’ve done the show. Unfortunately he died probably 12 years ago in 2003 at 63 years old and I feel so bad to have lost this great friend.
But I met so many great people—Danny DeVito, Billy Crystal, Martin Short, Candice Bergen who was Edgar Bergen’s daughter, Margaret Hamilton who was the Wicked Witch of the West—she recreated her character from The Wizard of Oz for the first time, and I got to be great friends with her, Deb and I. So we just met so many people—I sang with Johnny Cash, Ray Charles, Ziggy Marley. Pete Seeger was probably the first celebrity we ever worked with. Judy Collins, the singer, James Taylor—he rewrote his song Your Smiling Face so it was “Oscar, whenever I see your frowning face.” It was very funny. He was a very nice guy.
Do you find that you ever meet kids who identify with Oscar more than Big Bird?
Yeah, once in a while I’ve had letters. This woman wrote and said, my little boy Joshua loves Oscar so much that he insisted I buy him a trashcan, I bought him a plastic one, and he climbs into the trashcan to watch Sesame Street. He would be really upset on the days that Oscar didn’t happen to be on the show, instead it was Big Bird or a few of the other puppets but he was so deeply interested in Oscar that he would pretend he was a grouch. But she said he was the cheeriest little grouch we ever met. So I think we’ve had a positive effect on an awful lot of children, which is one of the delightful things that we who produce Sesame Street were really delighted that it worked out that way.
Well thank you so much.
I really enjoyed talking with you. You asked very good questions. Now Oscar, can you say goodbye to Jeremy?
Oscar: Yeah, have a rotten day.
Big Bird: Don’t listen to a grouch! Bye bye.
Yeah, once in a while I’ve had letters. This woman wrote and said, my little boy Joshua loves Oscar so much that he insisted I buy him a trashcan, I bought him a plastic one, and he climbs into the trashcan to watch Sesame Street. He would be really upset on the days that Oscar didn’t happen to be on the show, instead it was Big Bird or a few of the other puppets but he was so deeply interested in Oscar that he would pretend he was a grouch. But she said he was the cheeriest little grouch we ever met. So I think we’ve had a positive effect on an awful lot of children, which is one of the delightful things that we who produce Sesame Street were really delighted that it worked out that way.
Well thank you so much.
I really enjoyed talking with you. You asked very good questions. Now Oscar, can you say goodbye to Jeremy?
Oscar: Yeah, have a rotten day.
Big Bird: Don’t listen to a grouch! Bye bye.
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